Ur-OUT Pet Urine Odor Remover

Commercial

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All-Spray Molecular Magic Pre-Spray on Velvet Cotton Sofa

Since I formulated All-Spray earlier this year, my technicians are still making adjustments to having a lot less detergents on their shelves. Their biggest adjustment so far was using only one cleaner for six textiles, hence the name, All-Spray.

Last Friday my technician text me the picture above out of pure amazement at how All-Spray was performing on a cotton velvet sofa (forgive the pdf pic). We’ve all cleaned cotton velvet fibers, but have we cleaned a delicate fiber with the same pre-spray we used on grimy grout or restaurant carpet? Probably not.

All-Spray is molecularly structured to encapsulate then emulsify grease, grime and soil particulates without the use of soap or surfactants. All-Spray is a gamechanger for our industry. All-Spray is a non-toxic carpet pre-spray that thoroughly cleans tile, grout, wool, natural stone, cotton, marble, concrete, synthetic fibers and travertine without leaving a soapy residue that can re-soil soon after the cleaning. Another huge benefit: We no longer have to burn our lungs out with toxic ethers and solvents.

Another Success Story

Today the same technician called me to let me know that the grimy kitchen tile & grout he was cleaning looked brand new after he was done. The grout was so clean and white that the customer ask him for grout sealer! No up-selling required, she saw the floor and asked him to seal it.

So All-Spray not only cleans velvet and grout to like new condition, but it does it at a low pH of 8 while being 100% non-toxic and soap-free. Why is soap-free important? If you haven’t been paying attention, there’s a carpet cleaning franchise out there that offers no residue carpet cleaning and the message is sticking with our customers.

Soap and surfactants can re-soil carpet fibers even if they are thoroughly rinsed out, but who wants a two-day dry time? If your pre-spray contains surfactants, you are very likely leaving a soap residue that could cause your customer’s carpet to re-soil faster than with a soap-free product. If it contains anionic surfactants, the chance is even greater. Anionic surfactants is like the gift that keeps giving; it suds forever.

All-Spray’s Many Benefits

  • Destroys Grease & Grime
  • Will Not Resoil | 100% Soap-Free
  • HWE or VLM Pre-Spray
  • Cleans Greasy Restaurant Carpet
  • Cleans Grimy Tile & Grout
  • Cleans Stone, Marble, Travertine
  • Cleans Wool, Cotton, Jute
  • Cleans all Synthetic Fibers
  • Powerful Spotter & Degreaser

Other Great Features

  • 100% Non-Toxic
  • 100% Soap-Free
  • Near-Neutral 8 pH
  • No Rinse Needed
  • Won’t Etch Metals
  • StainGuard-Safe
  • VOC-Safe
  • Pet-Safe
  • Odor-Free
  • Dye-Free

Necessity is the Mother of Invention

Many in our industry know that my carpet cleaning and chemical company are over 450 miles apart. I own and manage a carpet cleaning business in Tennessee, yet I live in the Chicagoland area. Keeping liability low is a high priority so I formulate products to match that need. From this need is where Ur-OUT and All-Spray originated.

While many of us are owner-operators, those who have technicians know that trusting a technician to flush urine out of a the third floor multimillion dollar home is just a bad idea. With Ur-OUT, you get just enough into the pad and leave it there to dry naturally. This eliminates the fear of flooding, mold or causing some crazy unknown hazard. The same with All-Spray

Two days ago we had a new technician that said his wand wasn’t working right. It turns out one jet was clogged, really clogged. I asked him about the his last appointment and he said he did his best to extract using one jet. While it makes me cringe, thankfully All-Spray is an encapsulant without any soap so the carpet will not re-soil and if any soils remain they will dry-extract when vacuumed.

We need products that not only work effectively, but reduce our liability as much as possible. Both All-Spray and Ur-OUT do exactly that. If you are one of the few that hasn’t tried any of our products, get a free desktop sample kit at the bottom of our “Shop” page, or just take the plunge and place an order and we’ll ship it out ASAP.

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42% of Cleaners Treat Urine This Way

As mentioned in my recent CleanFax article “Oxidizers Win the Urine Odor Battle, but Lose the War” I talked about the role we carpet cleaners play when dealing with pet urine in carpet. Before I really knew what I was doing in the carpet cleaning business, I used to assume the role of Urine Odor Commander In Chief, not realizing I was destroying my reputation.

So many professional cleaners willingly put their reputation into the wrong customers’ hands by over promising pet urine results. I somehow used to think I could eliminate all the urine odors with beautiful smelling oxidizer, but it was short lived. After a few weeks, Mother Nature would send in more bacteria and starts off-gassing ammonia. The customer didn’t call me back; worse, they called my competitor.

After researching and formulating with pet urine for so long, I can tell you that the only way to completely remove pet urine from carpet is to either incinerate it, or completely replace it, concrete subfloor included! The only way to eliminate a significant amount of urine odor is by applying bacterial spores that break down the nitrogen through enzymes – just like Mother Nature.

How Do You Approach Pet Urine?

For fun, I ran poll on the facebook group Carpet Cleaning CEO and found that a majority of cleaners approach pet urine by subsurface extraction using an enzyme cleaner. I admit, the poll did not have enough respondents to deem it official, but regardless, 42% said they flushed urine out of carpet with an enzyme cleaner.

Subsurface Enzyme Extraction: 42%

Topical Odor Treatment: 23%

Subsurface Enzyme Injection: 19%

Subsurface Oxidizer injection: 1%

Subsurface Detergent Extraction: 1%

While it’s easy to win a liability claim from it, Subsurface Enzyme Extraction works great but for reasons many professional cleaners may not understand. If you have spent anytime in the water damage restoration field, you know that subsurface extractors do a great job removing water from the carpet, but not the pad. This means the pad is still significantly wet after flushing urine. We may think it’s bone dry, but peeling up the carpet and doing the old fashioned squeeze test will make us a liar, every time.

While enzymes hydrolyze the available fats and proteins, enzymes require a lot longer than a few minutes dwell time to work effectively. The real benefit with using enzymes as a flushing agent is the remaining spores that are left down in the pad after the service. As the pad dries, the remaining spores are finally given enough time to start kick-start the Nitrogen Cycle. And the longer they sit wet, the more effectively they work.

There is a Better Way

Pet urine is nearly all water with a fraction of it being protein waste. I have evaporated enough urine to know that aged urine is really just a putrefied dust that contains a lot of goodies for bacteria. The best way to eliminate pet urine odor is to speed up the consumption of the bacterial food source: nitrogen!

Ur-OUT is nothing more than Mother Nature on steroids. Ur-OUT packed full of a special blend of bacterial spores that release countless enzymes to help break down the nitrogen much faster. This results in the most permanent urine odor elimination possible next to incineration, or full replacement.

Here’s How to Make Your Urine Jobs Faster, Easier and Permanent: Pour or spray enough Ur-OUT onto each urine spot. Step on it to “inject it” into the carpet pad. Done! Clean the carpet and leave Ur-OUT to dry naturally. The longer it sits wet the better it works. Plus, Ur-OUT’s spores continue to work long after it is dry when humidity levels increase. Any remaining spores will start consuming any remaining nitrogen thereby safeguarding and controlling the odor into the future.

My Short Story

I own a carpet cleaning business over 450 miles from my home. I have ran the business for nearly six years long distance. One of the first changes I made was to stop subsurface extraction. I could not sleep at night wondering if one of my technicians put too much water down and now I’ve got a ceiling to replace, or worse, a mold claim.

I quickly made the change to subsurface enzyme injection and never looked back. After six years of subsurface injecting Ur-OUT, I can personally tell you that my technicians knock-out pet urine jobs in half the time with far less liability and results that only get better with time. Save the oxidizers for organic stains. For an authentic, long term urine odor remover, choose Ur-OUT. Buy a bottle right now!

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All-Spray Molecular Magic Pre-Spray

What if a pre-spray could clean carpet (HWE or VLM), tile, grout, natural stone, marble, wool & cotton rugs, upholstery, even greasy restaurant patios and oily garage floors? There is, and it’s called All-Spray Molecular Magic!

It gets better. All-Spray is 100% soap & surfactant-free so your flooring won’t rapid resoil after the cleaning. All-Spray is also 100% nontoxic, metal-safe, stainguard-safe, pet-safe, odor-free, dye-free and VOC free!

Watch All-Spray Destroy Cooking Oil

How All-Spray Works

All-Spray truly is Molecular Magic! Its molecular structure binds to both polar (water-based) and non-polar (oil-based) soils where it encapsulates then emulsifies dirt and grease. Clean greasy, grimy restaurant carpet, even the oil-thick grout in restaurant kitchens! Because All-Spray contains zero soap or surfactants you don’t have to worry about dirt-trapping rapid resoiling.

All-Spray can even clean high-end wool rugs, cotton upholstery, synthetic fibers even grimy concrete floors. And because All-Spray is 100% soap-free, your customer’s carpet will not re-soil rapidly from sticky surfactant residues.

Here’s a quick video of All-Spray on grubby grout, 10 minute dwell time with zero pre-agitation.

Throw The Expensive Toxic Cleaners Away

  • High pH, butyl-based pre-sprays for carpet, tile, upholstery and rugs
  • Acid-based Tile Cleaners that etch metals – No Thanks!
  • High VOC spotters & degreasers
  • Expensive Rug Cleaners for Wool & Cotton
  • Expensive Natural Stone Cleaners

All-Spray Molecular Magic cleans just about any textile without harsh, toxic additives. Replace your carcinogenic surfactants and solvent with a product that not only cleans harder, but smarter.

On Sale Now!

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Oxidizers Win the Urine Odor Battle, But Not the War

It seems the world has gone Oxi-crazy since the OxiClean infomercials of the early 2000’s. We use hydrogen peroxide in the cleaning & restoration industry to brighten, sanitize and eliminate stains, but just how effective are oxidizers at eliminating pet urine odors? While oxidizers eliminate urine odors instantly, they are actually counter-productive as they interrupt the nitrogen cycle which continues soon after the oxidation is over. 

Oxidizers remove the appearance of organic stains while having antimicrobial effects. While oxidizers quickly eliminate urine odors, many professional cleaners may not fully understand what is occurring and why they are providing a short-term solution to a long-term problem. One of the greatest misconceptions in our industry is that oxidizers eliminate pet urine odors permanently, but the nitrogen cycle teaches us otherwise.

Understanding the Nitrogen Cycle

Our ecosystem has an interesting way of renewing life-giving nutrients and nitrogen is one of the most abundant. All forms of life require nitrogen as it is one of the building blocks of our existence. Nitrogen helps create amino acids that ultimately result in DNA, critical for life and reproduction. The nitrogen cycle involves how nitrogen converts from solid, liquid and gaseous forms as it cycles through our environment. Lightening, rain, decaying waste and microbes all play an important role in the Nitrogen Cycle and pet urine within carpet is no exception.

When it comes to applying oxidizers to pet urine contamination, the result is instant. The odor disappears immediately but with the wrong intentions. Pet urine contains many sources of nitrogen including creatinine, urea and uric acid (uric salt). Special ammonyfying bacteria populate the nitrogen-rich waste to break down the nitrogen into its gaseous form of ammonia. This stage within the nitrogen cycle is known as ammonification. The resulting ammonia gas is lighter than air and becomes an unpleasant nuisance within a home as it wafts through the air.

Winning the Battle, but Losing the War

Oxidizers eliminate bacteria on-contact, particularly the ammonifying bacteria that were there converting the nitrogen to ammonia. While the urine odor may be gone, eliminating the bacteria is winning the battle, but losing the war. Because oxidizers, and other non-bacterial cleaners, cannot remove nitrogen, the area will eventually repopulate with ammonifying bacteria until the nitrogen is successfully converted to ammonia – no exceptions. Oddly enough the ammonifying bacteria were there helping to rid the area of nitrogen, just not fast enough for the customer’s sense of smell!

Another concern with using oxidizers is that they do not effectively remove the uric salt. Uric salt, a waste product of pet urine, is a desiccant that absorbs moisture while providing live-giving water for bacterial growth. Once the hydrogen peroxide loses an oxygen it turns into water. The sodium and nitrogen content of uric salt along with atmospheric moisture creates the perfect environment for the ammonyfing bacteria to return. This kick-starts the nitrogen cycle and the production of ammonia soon follows.

Permanent Pet Urine Odor Removal

Is complete urine odor removal achievable? The only way to remove urine odor permanently is to replace the carpet, pad and either seal or replace the sub-floor beneath. This however is usually unnecessary as there are products such as Ur-OUT that can eliminate significant amounts of urine odor by using the nitrogen cycle to its advantage.

Next to fully replacing the floor, the only effective way to eliminate the nitrogen is to speed up the ammonification process by adding more bacteria, not taking them away from oxidizers! Ur-OUT creates enzymes on-contact to fully digest the available nitrogen. This allows the nitrogen to quickly pass to its gaseous form of ammonia, which delivers a more permanent solution next to full replacement.

How Oxidizing Urine Odors Changed Both Cleaners’ and Customer’s Expectations

Notice I mentioned previously that enzymes offer a more permanent solution. Next to completely replacing the floor, no cleaning solution can offer complete pet urine odor removal. While it is possible that it may occur, it is likely a low possibility. Pet urine can seep deep into fibers, wood and concrete sub-floors where one or two service visits just cannot reach all the contaminated areas.

Because oxidizers work so fast at eliminating urine odor, the industry as a whole has grown more confident in offering urine odor removal services. However, as long as the nitrogen remains, the nitrogen cycle will continue and the ammonia smell will return. Even if we as professional cleaners offer a quality, spore-form bacterial digestant while applying it perfectly, we should still approach pet urine with far more humility. We should not only be focusing on mitigating the odor significantly, but educationg our customers on why full odor removal is likely impossible in the long run. While complete urine odor may occur, pet urine that has permeated hardwood or concrete sub-flooring is far more troublesome than most may realize in the long run.

No New Floor, No Odor Guarantee

Informing our customers that the only way to achieve complete urine odor removal is to replace the carpet, pad and sub-floor beneath. This is the key to delivering realistic expectations and ensuring we are not fully liable if remaining odors. While some customers may consider replacing the floor, it is best to inform them that treating the odor first justifies the cost even if it is a failure. I estimate treating pet urine is only 5% of the replacement cost of new carpet and pad, so odor treatment is well worth the attempt, and that excludes replacing and/or sealing the sub-floor!

When a customer understands that replacing the floor is the only way to eliminate the urine odor, it recasts our role as professional mitigator and not odor eliminator. By no means are we attempting to flee liability, but there are handful of solid reasons to never guarantee complete urine odor removal. I have experienced countless conversations where I had to remind customers of our disclaimer that complete floor replacement is the only way to meet their expectations if they want a 100% urine odor removal guarantee.  

Good, Cheap, Fast – Pick Two

I have heard many professional cleaners say that they do not have time for enzymes to work, and that they have oxidized urine jobs for years without any call-backs. This repeated phrase is a near battle cry within industry forums likely because oxidizers deliver such instant results. However, after the oxidizing effect dissipates the nitrogen cycle will continue, and with it more odors and the possibility of negative press.

It is important to realize that our customers are the opposite of us cleaners. We are typically the DIY type; they are not. When the odor return, many will call on your competitors without your knowing. I know this first-hand as it is exactly how I started my carpet cleaning business years ago. Most of our customers are loyal to results and value only. They have to be as they are not the DIY type. Unfortunately gauging results by lack of call-backs is not a successful strategy to measure results or success. Calling those customers a month or two after the service is. Do I have any takers?

Using oxidizers, or any other non-bacterial deodorant, to remediate urine odors is a Cheap, Fast service as the title suggests. Cheap, Fast yields low customer retention and the potential of gaining a bad reputation. It is crucial for professional cleaners to educate the customer on the nitrogen cycle and how complete urine odor removal may not occur. Explaining the nitrogen cycle sets realistic expectations, gains brand trust and gives you more credibility as an expert even if an odor remains!

Customers must realize that if they do not want to spend thousands of dollars for new carpet, pad and sub-floor, the next best thing is a quality spore-form enzymatic cleaner applied correctly to the carpet and pad. And it may even require more than one, two or even three visits! This is not your fault. The fault is with the person who decided to allow the pets in the home, the home buyer who failed to get a Urine Mapping Test prior to purchasing, or the landlord who allowed pets with every single tenant.

Rethinking Our Role When Treating Urine Odors

Pet urine is so pervasive that it may require additional applications on separate appointments. As mentioned, this is not the professional cleaners fault, as urine can seep deep into textiles, hardwood floors and concrete. And who knows how many times a pet has piddled in one location. It does become the cleaners fault if he or she does not educate the customer on the uric salt cycle and/or the nitrogen cycle.  

Many cleaning professionals feel pressured to deliver what the customer wants – no urine odors. While this is achievable using oxidizers, it is only a short term fix with possibility of tarnishing your brand in the long run. Applying a quality spore-form product, such as Ur-OUT, delivers long-term results.

Becoming the expert by educating the customer of the uric salt cycle and/or the nitrogen cycle is a way to successfully grow the odor remediation arm of your carpet cleaning business and your reputation. Oddly enough, taking on the role of reducing the urine odors instead of guaranteeing full removal delivers a better customer experience.

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Oxidizers Win the Pet Urine Battle, But Not the War

It seems the world has gone Oxi-crazy since the OxiClean infomercials of the early 2000’s. We use hydrogen peroxide in cleaners, spotters, boosters, deodorizers, you name it – it’s everywhere. Oxidizers do miracles for the cleaning industry, but there is one area of concern where oxygen is heavily used, but unfortunately greatly misunderstood.

Oxidizers remove the appearance of stains while having antimicrobial affects. They appear to work wonders on pet urine odor removal, but the Nitrogen Cycle teaches us otherwise. While oxidizers eliminate ammonia odors instantly, many professional cleaners may not fully understanding how or why. One of the greatest misconceptions in our industry is that oxidizers eliminate pet urine odors permanently.

The Nitrogen Cycle

All forms of life require nitrogen. Nitrogen helps create amino acids that give us proteins and eventually DNA, critical for life and reproduction. The Nitrogen Cycle involves how this element converts to liquid and gaseous forms throughout a cycle. It is fascinating to see how our ecosystem recycles nitrogen as a life force. Lightening, rain, decaying waste (urine) and microbes all play an important role in the Nitrogen Cycle.

When it comes to applying oxidizers to pet urine odors, the result is swift and instant. The odors disappear immediately because the oxidizer destroys the ammonifying bacteria on contact. However, the ammonifying bacteria were there for specific reason, to convert the nitrogen within the uric salt, creatinine and urea to the gaseous form of nitrogen called ammonia.

While the urine odors may have been eradicated, it is only temporary as oxidizers do not effectively alter the nitrogen. The area will eventually repopulate with ammonifying bacteria until the nitrogen is successfully converted to ammonia – no exceptions.

Nitrogen: Fighting Fire with Fire

Pet urine contains several sources of nitrogen. While oxidizers eliminate the nitrogen-converting bacteria, eliminating the bacteria is winning the battle, but not the war. This means the Nitrogen Cycle will continue as more ammonifying bacteria return and start converting the nitrogen to ammonia. The uric salt also makes this process much more attractive as it absorbs moisture as a desiccant to support further microbial life.

The only effective way to eliminate the nitrogen without replacing the flooring is to speed up the ammonification process. The ammonifying bacteria use special enzymes to convert nitrogen to ammonia. Applying additional enzymes to the nutrient-dense area provides the perfect environment for complete ammonification (nitrogen elimination).

Spore-form Ur-OUT

Enzymes quickly speed up the ammonifcation process thereby eliminating the possibility of future odors. While the process is not instant, it is still the only way to properly eliminate pet urine odors permanently. Unlike many enzymatic deodorants that are sold in enzyme form, Ur-OUT is a dormant formula, the stage prior to creating enzymes, so it starts creating enzymes on contact with the nitrogen. This provides the most potent enzyme count possible and the best chance for complete ammonification.

Spore-form Ur-OUT contains a specific amount of fragrance to temporarily mask the rush of ammonia odor until the ammonification process is complete. Ur-OUT’s fragrance slowly dissipates as the conversion occurs so there are no overpowering, lingering odors. The result is a fresh, clean, ammonia-free smell.

Good, Cheap, Fast: Pick Two

I have heard professional carpet cleaners say that they do not have time for enzymes to work, and that peroxide does the job instantly without any call-backs. This repeated phrase is a near battle cry within the industry, likely because the results are so instant. Science, however, tells us otherwise. It is also a Cheap, Fast service as the title suggests. Cheap, Fast yields low customer retention. It is crucial for professional cleaners to educate their customers on the Nitrogen Cycle.

Customers must realize that if they do not want to spend thousands of dollars in new carpet, pad and sub-floor, the next best thing is a quality spore-form enzymatic cleaner applied correctly to the carpet and pad. And it may require more than one visit!

Rethinking Pet Urine Odor Remediation

Pet urine is so pervasive that it may require additional applications on separate appointments. This is not the professional cleaners fault, as urine can seep deep into textiles, hardwood floors, even concrete. And who knows how many times a pet has pee’d in one location. It does become the carpet cleaners fault if he or she does not educate the customer on the odor removal process or offering a 100% odor removal guarantee that very day.

You did not ask the customer to allow their pet to pee on the carpet, nor that new-used homeowner to buy a home full contaminated carpet. If they do not want to fix the problem correctly, that is, full replacement, then you are not fully liable for complete pet urine odor removal.

Become the educator; assume the role of odor remediator, and not odor eliminator. Your aim is to save them thousands of dollars by helping them mitigate the pet urine odor. If full removal occurs, great, but offering anything more is risky.

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Pet Odor Remediation: A Two Day Appointment?

Let’s be real, we cleaning professionals love scheduling appointments, but do we ever consider how much liability is involved when it comes to pet urine jobs and our reputation? I assure you, those 50+ urine spots the customer doesn’t know are there didn’t get there overnight, so why do they think a quick carpet cleaning will do the trick?

Pet urine is a big reason customers need their carpet cleaned. Many of these customers don’t understand that pet urine can not only saturate the carpet pad, but the concrete or wood sub-floor beneath. Explaining how pervasive pet urine is to your customer is important for two reasons: Their satisfaction and your revenue.

Why Scheduling Two Appointments is Better

While treating pet urine and cleaning the carpet on the same day works, scheduling the service over two appointments yields better results with more revenue. Applying a quality spore-form product like Ur-OUT during the first appointment allows for a longer, more thorough application within the carpet fibers, pad and sub-floor beneath. This eliminates a greater amount of nutrient dense salt (uric salt) so odor-causing bacteria cannot return. Regarding revenue, scheduling the appointments on two separate days tells your customer indirectly that pet urine odor remediation is more invasive than simply cleaning the carpet. Educating your customer on the odor elimination process it the key to her understanding and accepting the value proposition.

I get it, we’re in a highly competitive industry; you might have a fear of losing the customer. If the customer is truly interested in removing pet urine odors from her carpet, she will choose the most thorough cleaning possible. Keep in mind, she has already tried vinegar and baking sofa and now it’s worse, right? If however you do lose the customer, they are likely focused on price and not results. While I would tread likely, you can down sell, but keep in mind that pet urine odor remediation is a double-edged sword: low price and premium results do not go together.

How to Schedule Two Day Appointments

Treating the pet urine and scheduling the cleaning for another day creates better value for you and the customer. While you can treat pet urine the same day as the cleaning, separating the two gives you a much better success rate as it’s more thorough and eliminates wicking, stains and residual odor complaints. You also get a second look on the day of the cleaning to make sure you’re delivering the best results possible.

Scheduling two separate appointments should not happen while at the job site, typically. Some will of course, but this type of appointment should be pre-qualified when the customer first calls in. Whether you provide a phone quote or in-home quote, asking the right question is the key to understanding what the customer truly wants. If pet urine odor is their main concern, going for two separate appointments will earn you more revenue and a potential life-long customer.

The Science Behind Separate Appointments

Understanding why pet urine odors reoccur is priceless information in our industry. Breaking the Uric Salt Cycle is the key to permanent pet urine odor removal. Biology, not chemistry, is the answer as you will learn shortly. Hydrogen peroxide, which is another popular odor treatment, does remove urine odors instantly; however, peroxide and other oxidizing cleaners do Not affect the nitrogen found within uric salt (urine salt). This means the nutritious uric salt will attract more odor-causing bacteria possibly in as little as a few weeks. Moreover, peroxide turns into water, the very fuel that restarts the bacterial growth through the Uric Salt Cycle.

Spore-form Ur-OUT eliminates the nitrogen found in uric salt thereby breaking the Uric Salt Cycle for permanent results. Giving Spore-form Ur-OUT time to eliminate the pet urine odors before the cleaning is the most permanent pet urine treatment available next to replacement. Note: you can also apply Ur-OUT same-day into the pad and clean the carpet afterwards. You can also use Ur-OUT as a powerful Subsurface Extraction cleaner at 1:20! More good information at: Pet Urine Odor Removal: Chemistry or Biology?